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Santana tandems
Has anyone got any experience of the Scandium, Titanium or Carbon tandems offered by Santana, preferably with the 10" Winzip disc brake, carbon front fork and 26" wheels. We are particularly interested in the V top tandem with S&S couplings so we can dismantle and fly it. Our normal use is day ride touring, but we do venture up some of the longer climbs in France for our main holiday, hence lightness is obviously a major criterion. We currently run a Cannondale but hate the thought of flying it. I know many people pipe lag their bikes and get away with it but this is not an option I am willing to consider.
: Has anyone got any experience of the Scandium, Titanium or Carbon tandems
: offered by Santana, preferably with the 10" Winzip disc brake, carbon
: front fork and 26" wheels. We are particularly interested in the V
: top tandem with S&S couplings so we can dismantle and fly it. Our normal
: use is day ride touring, but we do venture up some of the longer climbs in
: France for our main holiday, hence lightness is obviously a major
: criterion. We currently run a Cannondale but hate the thought of flying
: it. I know many people pipe lag their bikes and get away with it but this
: is not an option I am willing to consider.
You won't find many of these in the UK yet and would likely get more response from a USA forum. Register at "tandem@hobbes" and post a message on their forum.(use the link below)
http://sdcc3.ucsd.edu/home-pages/wade/tandem.html
Chris
TC Technical advisor
: Has anyone got any experience of the Scandium, Titanium or Carbon tandems
: offered by Santana, preferably with the 10" Winzip disc brake, carbon
: front fork and 26" wheels. We are particularly interested in the V
: top tandem with S&S couplings so we can dismantle and fly it. Our normal
: use is day ride touring, but we do venture up some of the longer climbs in
: France for our main holiday, hence lightness is obviously a major
: criterion. We currently run a Cannondale but hate the thought of flying
: it. I know many people pipe lag their bikes and get away with it but this
: is not an option I am willing to consider.
Neal,
Whilst not unfortunately the owner of such a machine,I think the proprietors of JD Cycles in Ilkley have,or had, one.
Whether it fulfills all your criteria I don't know but I remember admiring it at one time propped up outside the shop.It was titanium/carbon and had S & S couplings if I remember correctly.
If you e-mail or call the shop I am sure someone will be able to help.The ownwers name is Ruth.
I have no connection with the said business other than a customer
Ian
You could also try dropping an email to Wolfgang Haas at FAHRRAD@aol.com
He is the (mainland) European distributor for Santana Tandems and was showing some of these "exotics" in a recent stocklist he sent me.
Wolfgang speaks and writes good English. My only connection with him is as prospective customer. He insists that all customers try out his tandems before he lets them buy one, so I guess we'll be meeting him some time in the next month or so. He is based near Munich.
Way Way over price. There are Many American Tandems that are far better with S & S coubling
Stephen Reker
: Has anyone got any experience of the Scandium, Titanium or Carbon tandems
: offered by Santana, preferably with the 10" Winzip disc brake, carbon
: front fork and 26" wheels. We are particularly interested in the V
: top tandem with S&S couplings so we can dismantle and fly it. Our normal
: use is day ride touring, but we do venture up some of the longer climbs in
: France for our main holiday, hence lightness is obviously a major
: criterion. We currently run a Cannondale but hate the thought of flying
: it. I know many people pipe lag their bikes and get away with it but this
: is not an option I am willing to consider.
Agree with Steve Reker: Santana builds a nice tandem but is way overpriced.
Check out Calfee tandems: Same price (or less) available with S&S and ALL carbon fiber . . . and pounds lighter.
We were at a tandem rally and someone had the then new 'tana carbon/ti Beyond, People flocked around it to admire it . . . the owner of the Beyond spotted our tandem and asked: 'can I pick it up?' He walked away and all he said was 'Oh Sh*t!'
Yes, have ridden several thousdand test miles on 'tanas including the Beyond and the Ti model. Nice, but overpriced.
Own a full custom carbon fiber tandem with 17,500 miles on it . . . NICE!
Just our opinion/experience.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem/USA
: Neal,
: Whilst not unfortunately the owner of such a machine,I think the proprietors
: of JD Cycles in Ilkley have,or had, one.
: Whether it fulfills all your criteria I don't know but I remember admiring it
: at one time propped up outside the shop.It was titanium/carbon and had S
: & S couplings if I remember correctly.
: If you e-mail or call the shop I am sure someone will be able to help.The
: ownwers name is Ruth.
: http://www.jdcycles.co.uk/
: I have no connection with the said business other than a customer
: Ian
I've just spotted that there's a Santana Titanium tandem with S&S couplers being advertised in on the "For Sale Board".
Might be worth your while dropping Jim Churton a line.
Neil,
At the risk of offending Rudy and Kay, it seems unwise to import a tandem from one expensive country into another, with all the duties and taxes our government imposes on them. (We own Harleys and have years of experience!)
Try to find a European or British brand that will do what you want, there should be significant savings.
Graham.
Graham: No offense taken . . . and a valid point you make!
But if someone is ready to lay out lots of dollars, pounds or Euros for a top notch tandem then import duties or VAT or whatever becomes another part of the joy of owning a unique 2-seater.
Design a tandem to fit your needs and have a reputable local builder go at it!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem/USA
: Neil,
: At the risk of offending Rudy and Kay, it seems unwise to import a tandem
: from one expensive country into another, with all the duties and taxes our
: government imposes on them. (We own Harleys and have years of experience!)
: Try to find a European or British brand that will do what you want, there
: should be significant savings.
: Graham.
Just my halfpenny's worth. When we looked into importing a new US made tandem one area that did come up in the conversation was the case of warranty issues. The manufacturer will want you to return (if needed) to the retailer you bought it from to deal with any warranty issues that would be quite an issue if you had to send the Tandem back to the US.
For some, like us warranty would be very important as investments of this level requires a good LBS to support you in the need of a claim. Certainly Trek & Specialized are offering only full support to 'face to face' buyers and I understand a lot of UK suppliers including Dawes are also considering this too.
Ofcourse if you are not worried about warranty then the world is you oyster we just felt it shrewed to go down the LBS route to assist us with our purchase - and I must say it has been worth every penny.
Regards
David
Rudy and Kay,
David has made a very good point, about using a local bike shop to get after sales service.
But I didn't have my mind fully in gear when commenting on buying a US brand. There has been a steady trickle of packages from the USA into this household over the last year or so, because the exchange rate is so favourable.
US goods are very affordable at present, so as long as the UK importers are passing on the savings, a Santana should be relatively good value. Perhaps I should withdraw my previous contribution!
UK buyers should be warned, however. As a long-standing Harley owner I have found it is not uncommon here, even with today's exchange rates, to be charged pounds for dollars. Check US prices and compare them with UK ones. That is why I have been buying direct from the USA (although not, admittedly, a tandem!).
One of the reasons I made my previous post is that many of the components of a tandem are the same worldwide. They will have been transported to the USA from the far east, associated costs and duties paid, then shipped again to the UK, where further costs and duties are added.
The parts made by the tandem manufacturer are relatively few, even if they are the biggest bits! So I have mixed feelings about the economics of buying any imported tandem and if in the market for a new one would buy British, simply because the supply chain is shortened, hence the end product should be cheaper.
However if I wanted one, I would have few doubts about personally importing a Santana tandem direct from the USA. The troublesome bits are likely to be the non-Santana made parts, service for which is widely available here. The likelyhood of the Santana parts being troublesome is slight.
So if as a buyer support from a LBS is not important, it hardly matters if the seller is a continent away.
There, I have talked my way into changing my mind!
Graham.
Hello again...
Do not forget that US prices on the internet are actually without state sales tax (like our vat) so one should always remove the vat to get a comparison and also duty into the UK is higher for built machines than frames alone.
One story I had also heard was of a couple who went out and bought a Tandem in the US and then brought it back on their return. They were stopped by Customs & Excise (at the declare section) who had cross referenced their luggage details going out (weight & number of bags I guess) against that of the return and then proceeded to charge duty, vat & a fine for fraud. Apparantly an increase in this since the dollar has become more favorable.
Something to seriously consider?
regards
David
David,
You are quite right, that duties and VAT will be payable on importing into the UK. These are applicable on any goods above £18 in value. If importing privately shipping will be a further consideration, on top of the advertised price. Bringing things in by hand one should simply present oneself at the something to declare counter, to complete formalities legitimately.
I have not looked at US versus UK tandem prices, but for other items I have imported (I have been doing it for valuable motorcycle and other accessories for many years) it is not uncommon for UK importers to set prices at around the same pounds as they are dollars in the USA.
Take a high value item such as a tandem and that is a huge sum of money, providing scope to the individual to buy with a considerable saving, despite shipping and duties etc.
As an example I recently bought new from a US dealer an item that cost me £350, all costs included, which would have cost me £520 from a UK dealer. A Santana could have a nought on the ends of those figures!
The thoughts keep coming! A further possibility, which is still remarkably common, is that many US dealers will not ship outside the USA. However they are not all like that, with some positively encouraging such trade.
Graham.
For what it is worth ( Frames & Finish ) S & S couples
-I have owned 2 Santana Tandems & they both had there Issues, there Finish can't compare with
your Mercian Bicycles. Now my English friends I am going let the Cat out of the bag.
If you want the best, the Bentley with Speed, check out GOOGLE " ERICKSON CUSTOM TANDEMS "
This is the Best of Show at all the American Rallies. Glen Erickson is Famous for his Artistic Metalwork.
These Tandems are a work of Art.
You will need a few cheap American Dollars & Wait for 2009
To all my Pals in the U.K. -Stephen Reker
: David,
: You are quite right, that duties and VAT will be payable on importing into
: the UK. These are applicable on any goods above £18 in value. If importing
: privately shipping will be a further consideration, on top of the
: advertised price. Bringing things in by hand one should simply present
: oneself at the something to declare counter, to complete formalities
: legitimately.
: I have not looked at US versus UK tandem prices, but for other items I have
: imported (I have been doing it for valuable motorcycle and other
: accessories for many years) it is not uncommon for UK importers to set
: prices at around the same pounds as they are dollars in the USA.
: Take a high value item such as a tandem and that is a huge sum of money,
: providing scope to the individual to buy with a considerable saving,
: despite shipping and duties etc.
: As an example I recently bought new from a US dealer an item that cost me
: £350, all costs included, which would have cost me £520 from a UK dealer.
: A Santana could have a nought on the ends of those figures!
: The thoughts keep coming! A further possibility, which is still remarkably
: common, is that many US dealers will not ship outside the USA. However
: they are not all like that, with some positively encouraging such trade.
: Graham.
------WebKitFormBoundarye4uXy+SsrYZXfWSS
: For what it is worth ( Frames & Finish ) S & S couples
: -I have owned 2 Santana Tandems & they both had there Issues, there
: Finish can't compare with
: your Mercian Bicycles.
Stephen,
Ah, Mercian! I used to cycle past their shop in Derby twice a day when much younger. I couldn't afford one then and cannot justify one today. Lackaday!
Graham.
Graham:
Well exchange rate has become even more favorable now! Soon the US $
dollar will be worthle$$!
Other issues with some Santana bits are: 160mm rear spacing for back wheel and the 1 1/4" headset are not standard tandem bits either. So rear wheels and headsets can/could be an issue. Front derailleurs on their later tandems were modified to improve chain shifting. Their new Winzip brakes are not exactly trouble-free either Fortunately you do have some 'tana dealers in the UK.
Agree many tandem parts are universally used, but Santana always has marched to a different drummer.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem/USA
: Rudy and Kay,
: David has made a very good point, about using a local bike shop to get after
: sales service.
: But I didn't have my mind fully in gear when commenting on buying a US brand.
: There has been a steady trickle of packages from the USA into this
: household over the last year or so, because the exchange rate is so
: favourable.
: US goods are very affordable at present, so as long as the UK importers are
: passing on the savings, a Santana should be relatively good value. Perhaps
: I should withdraw my previous contribution!
: UK buyers should be warned, however. As a long-standing Harley owner I have
: found it is not uncommon here, even with today's exchange rates, to be
: charged pounds for dollars. Check US prices and compare them with UK ones.
: That is why I have been buying direct from the USA (although not,
: admittedly, a tandem!).
: One of the reasons I made my previous post is that many of the components of
: a tandem are the same worldwide. They will have been transported to the
: USA from the far east, associated costs and duties paid, then shipped
: again to the UK, where further costs and duties are added.
: The parts made by the tandem manufacturer are relatively few, even if they
: are the biggest bits! So I have mixed feelings about the economics of
: buying any imported tandem and if in the market for a new one would buy
: British, simply because the supply chain is shortened, hence the end
: product should be cheaper.
: However if I wanted one, I would have few doubts about personally importing a
: Santana tandem direct from the USA. The troublesome bits are likely to be
: the non-Santana made parts, service for which is widely available here.
: The likelyhood of the Santana parts being troublesome is slight.
: So if as a buyer support from a LBS is not important, it hardly matters if
: the seller is a continent away.
: There, I have talked my way into changing my mind!
: Graham.
: Has anyone got any experience of the Scandium, Titanium or Carbon tandems
: offered by Santana, preferably with the 10" Winzip disc brake, carbon
: front fork and 26" wheels. We are particularly interested in the V
: top tandem with S&S couplings so we can dismantle and fly it. Our normal
: use is day ride touring, but we do venture up some of the longer climbs in
: France for our main holiday, hence lightness is obviously a major
: criterion. We currently run a Cannondale but hate the thought of flying
: it. I know many people pipe lag their bikes and get away with it but this
: is not an option I am willing to consider.
I don't think I will ever be in the market for a Santana tandem, apart from the cost I fear I am too substantial for them.However I have e njoyed looking at them for sale on Ebay America.The Santana factory are selling their trade ins and ex display models on Ebay at more reasonable than list prices with some history.They also offer a frame repair service and will give a lifetime guarantee to the frame for an extra $200.
As I said I don't think I will ever be in the market for one but the attention to detail in the ads and the level of service from the factory seems impressive and of interest to any tandem enthusiast.To reach them simply click on the worldwide box when setting search parameters and then enter tandem.
Simon
Simon
Hi,
I bought a 26" wheel, v-top, S&S coupled, lightweight steel Santana with a 10" winzip and have been really, really pleased with it. Previously we had a Dawes Galaxy Twin which had given us years of loyal service, so I was in two minds whether to just keep it especially as the Santana is a more expensive bike. What changed my mind was:
Weight - even with the couplings this is a considerably lighter bike (and mine's steel!).
Ride - hard to put into words but it rode (and climbed) so much better.
S&S couplings - the flexibility they bring for flying, or putting your tandem in the car (security, fuel economy, cleaner).
Longer rear top tube - gives stoker more room to get comfortable (very, very important as any front rider will know ;o)
10" rear disc - lots of power and heat disapation. Sanatana's frame design actually allows you to run a disc of this size AND still have an undished rear wheel so keeping wheel strength.
Colour - (I know...) There are a vast array of paint finishes to choose from.
Spec - Although you can buy standard spec's, JD Cycles are happy to build a bike to your spec (which gives you some flexibility on price).
Talking of price, as a Yorkshireman, I don't part with my cash easily so it was a big purchase for our household, but we have a fantastic bike that feels great to ride and will gives us years of service.
I am a customer of JDs which is why I made reference to them above, and a service they offer is to test ride various Santana's so you really can try before you buy. Plus they offer the full after sales/warrenty service.
Sometimes you have to pay for quality, and for me this was one of them.
Jim
: Has anyone got any experience of the Scandium, Titanium or Carbon tandems
: offered by Santana, preferably with the 10" Winzip disc brake, carbon
: front fork and 26" wheels. We are particularly interested in the V
: top tandem with S&S couplings so we can dismantle and fly it. Our normal
: use is day ride touring, but we do venture up some of the longer climbs in
: France for our main holiday, hence lightness is obviously a major
: criterion. We currently run a Cannondale but hate the thought of flying
: it. I know many people pipe lag their bikes and get away with it but this
: is not an option I am willing to consider.
Just to say - my mate owns a Santana. We ride in the Lake District and that's tough with a capital T on a tandem - as anyone who's ridden Wrynose and Hardknott pass will tell you. The frame itself has been rock solid, but we do have issues with certain components, particularly rear hubs (broken pawls on reputedly bomb-proof 'Hadley' hubs - after changing from Edco which were equally unreliable). We have yet another hub in for repair as I type.
What I wanted to say though was that JD Cycles (Ilkley) are nothing short of excellent to deal with. No quibbles about breakages being repaired, they've even lent us wheels in the past to keep us on the road. We're maybe forming the conclusion that life will be like this - hope Hadley have deep pockets ;-) but it is frustrating. A definite thumbs up for JD Cycles.
Allan.
: Hi,
: I bought a 26" wheel, v-top, S&S coupled, lightweight steel Santana with
: a 10" winzip and have been really, really pleased with it. Previously
: we had a Dawes Galaxy Twin which had given us years of loyal service, so I
: was in two minds whether to just keep it especially as the Santana is a
: more expensive bike. What changed my mind was: Weight - even with the
: couplings this is a considerably lighter bike (and mine's steel!).
: Ride - hard to put into words but it rode (and climbed) so much better.
: S&S couplings - the flexibility they bring for flying, or putting your tandem
: in the car (security, fuel economy, cleaner).
: Longer rear top tube - gives stoker more room to get comfortable (very, very
: important as any front rider will know ;o)
: 10" rear disc - lots of power and heat disapation. Sanatana's frame
: design actually allows you to run a disc of this size AND still have an
: undished rear wheel so keeping wheel strength.
: Colour - (I know...) There are a vast array of paint finishes to choose from.
: Spec - Although you can buy standard spec's, JD Cycles are happy to build a
: bike to your spec (which gives you some flexibility on price).
: Talking of price, as a Yorkshireman, I don't part with my cash easily so it
: was a big purchase for our household, but we have a fantastic bike that
: feels great to ride and will gives us years of service.
: I am a customer of JDs which is why I made reference to them above, and a
: service they offer is to test ride various Santana's so you really can try
: before you buy. Plus they offer the full after sales/warrenty service.
: Sometimes you have to pay for quality, and for me this was one of them.
: Jim
Must agree with Allen I also recently bought a fabulous Santana Fusion with couplers (and a Dawes super Galaxy 5yrs ago)from JDs Ilkley, their service is second to none with no pressure when buying/trying out their extensive range of Tandems.I must also agree about the after sales service/warranty issues, at the end of the day peace of mind is worth a lot and their expertise is at the end of the phone. You get what you pay for in this world and I have no doubts my purchases were well justified.
T.C.