I had similar problems and disks overheating and warping. We tried different pads and even disks and still had problems Kevin Smith our area rep recommended hydraulic we have not had a problem since. 

Hi Steve,

I put TRP Spyres on my cannondale with SRAM shifters and  found the performance on stock pads was markedly improved after getting the brakes really hot...... like so hot you could feel the heat and hear them pinging as we pulled up. I rode mine with my daughter so we were a relatively lightweight crew, probably 120kg and I found the braking power enough to know I could stop it in any situation. After market pads would probably be worth investigating if you're looking for more power. They were certainly significantly better than the setup they replaced ( bb7). Hope that helps. 
Jamie

Hi Steve,

I put TRP Spyres on my cannondale with SRAM shifters and  found the performance on stock pads was markedly improved after getting the brakes really hot...... like so hot you could feel the heat and hear them pinging as we pulled up. I rode mine with my daughter so we were a relatively lightweight crew, probably 120kg and I found the braking power enough to know I could stop it in any situation. After market pads would probably be worth investigating if you're looking for more power. They were certainly significantly better than the setup they replaced ( bb7). Hope that helps. 
Jamie

Hi Steve - you say the bike is new: are you a new team to tandeming?

If so, I'd just say if you are riding Pennine routes and are a reasonable weight combo (150kg - 180kg ish), the brakes are going to be really put through their paces. If Chris expects solo bike brake performance, he will be disappointed. Heat generated is proportional to mass, so doubling the mass means doubling the heat that the brakes have to dissipate for any given speed reduction. The TRP calliper does not look as if if has been designed with cooling features (?). There were some after market finned pads around a while ago that might be worth a look to see if they are compatible with TRP:

https://www.uberbikecomponents.com/category/447/Finned-Disc-Brake-Pads

I tandemed in the Alps and also tandem off road and I'd advise you to always ride within your brakes' capability. Consequences of brake failure can be catastrophic! Apologies if none of that is news to you. 

A sintered pad will cope with the heat better but as said before a tandem is a heavy beast that requires a fair bit of stopping power.

As you are already running 300mm discs my opinion is that you are probably at the limit of cable discs and if you feel you need more power you need to upgrade to hydraulic brakes. Our Hope V4 with 220mm vented discs, loaded for touring are very impressive 

A sintered pad will cope with the heat better but as said before a tandem is a heavy beast that requires a fair bit of stopping power.

As you are already running 300mm discs my opinion is that you are probably at the limit of cable discs and if you feel you need more power you need to upgrade to hydraulic brakes. Our Hope V4 with 220mm vented discs, loaded for touring are very impressive 

 I can second the fact that Hope V4 with big vented disc is superb - even when using it for long descents on the kind of steep and twisty lanes where it's just not possible to let the speed build between braking to try and keep things cooler.

Having some experience of trp spyre discs on my solo touring bike, they are great for what they are but simply not in the same league by a very long way in terms of either power or ability to dissipate heat. The amount of energy / heat that has to be dissipated from a loaded tandem on a long descent is staggering and I suspect often under appreciated.

 

 

Thank you for all advice,

Sitting on the back, braking feels great to me.  As I can't pilot the tandem though I can't really comment on how they feel to use.

My thoughts are that the brakes are good and JD Tandems recommend them over hydraulic's,I asked them specifically about this when purchased.  I don't want to confuse the thread with a hydraulic vs cable debate,I definitely accept there are other / bigger options out there.

I guess our combined rider weight is 130kg (I haven't been unkind enough to weigh Chris:-) and we are not carrying anything beyond a top bag for tools and sandwiches.

I think what he is asking for t is something that feels like it is having more bite.  The brakes feel very strong indeed on long descents, plus we have the 3rd rim brake also if needed.

Beyond usual maintenance of brake cleaning etc, I'll try some sintered pads as recommended.

We are a new tandem team on a step learning curve.  This may add suggested be a case of expectations also.  A tandem is much more weight to haul up. 

I think we are looking for minor improvement rather than major modification.

I would be interested to hear more about pad choice / recommendations,

Thanks again,

Steve

 

Forgot to add, drop bar bike using Shimano STI 'brifters'

I'd second Christopher's earlier comments above, as heat dispersion is key. Either through the use of finned pads and also vented/floating disc at its largest possible diameter. I changed to the TRP Sprye on the rear which made a big improvement over the BB5 but the front is Hope 4 piston hydraulic (which has made a massive difference) but either way I don't "let the bike go" on descents period! Even stopping on some long descents to allow the brakes to recover. 

The use of kevlar or sintered pads would seem to be a suitable upgrade. But the development on e-bikes technology has different compounds being introduced...

I'd second Christopher's earlier comments above, as heat dispersion is key. Either through the use of finned pads and also vented/floating disc at its largest possible diameter. I changed to the TRP Sprye on the rear which made a big improvement over the BB5 but the front is Hope 4 piston hydraulic (which has made a massive difference) but either way I don't "let the bike go" on descents period! Even stopping on some long descents to allow the brakes to recover. 

The use of kevlar or sintered pads would seem to be a suitable upgrade. But the development on e-bikes technology has different compounds being introduced...

I'd second Christopher's earlier comments above, as heat dispersion is key. Either through the use of finned pads and also vented/floating disc at its largest possible diameter. I changed to the TRP Sprye on the rear which made a big improvement over the BB5 but the front is Hope 4 piston hydraulic (which has made a massive difference) but either way I don't "let the bike go" on descents period! Even stopping on some long descents to allow the brakes to recover. 

The use of kevlar or sintered pads would seem to be a suitable upgrade. But the development on e-bikes technology has different compounds being introduced...

If you are new to tandem  can I suggest you look at Sheldon Brown's website. He is an American cycling "guru" ,   I found some of his insights and technical pages useful for tandem riding and cycling in general useful.

Thought I would add an update, thanks for all advice so far.'m

I'm keen to explore what can be achieved with the TRP Spyre's.  I have read numerous reports praising them for tandem use, whilst they are also recommended by JD Tandems who produce the bike.  I'm not ready to go full hydraulic, this would be a big cost as we are running STI 'brifters', plus I was specifically advised against this at purchase.  We are a light weight team who are not carrying any load.

I've continued to read around the internet and hone the setup up as per recommended.

After reading another forum post I have made the purchase of some 'Discopads' copper free model pads, on the advice that they where significantly better in the Spyres, I avoided sintered as these are are advised as having less power.  The pads where fitted yesterday and myself and Chris took a ride into the hills.  After bedding them in we from terrible brakes (on the new pads) to remarkably good brakes.  Chris' main concern was that the brakes didn't 'bite', this wasn't an overheating or fade problem, it was the initial power of the brake.  The Discopads and perhaps me further setting up the brakes, appear to have solved this issue.  Now the Spyres are significantly more powerful, Chris is happy with the improvement, whilst from the back things also appear well improved.

I have now ordered a set of Shimano XT 203mm floating ice-tech disks, these appear to be well regarded.  At the moment the braking seems to be what we where hoping for, I think some rotors with better cooling properties should be a good investment.

Thanks David Grey, l'm a long term fan of Sheldon Brown.  Haven't dipped into his preserved website for some time, good to see that it is still being maintained and added to.

Hi Stephen, my advice would be to consider the TRP version that operates on cables, but has a hydraulic master cylinder on the caliper that Richard mentions above. Thus magnifying the pressure from the cable by a significant amount. Overheating/warping is a result of heat build up as you probably know. So short hard pulls work better than dragging to reduce speed. Having the version above allows less contact between disc and rota causing less heat build up because the caliper can squeeze harder. It's a low cost 30min job for the conversion. 

We're just back from a week in the Alps, thankfully without luggage this time!

Running old school Shimano STIs and Hayes all metal calipers. The big upgrade we made was some Magura 203mm floating discs from and back. These are thicker than standard discs and we ran them with sintered pads to cope with the extra heat and thankfully can report everything performed perfectly. 

General braking has been very good and the big mountains over there didn't trouble me, though did have to adjust the brakes each day just because of the heavy use - can't remember the last time I'd adjusted them in the UK, 

Good luck

Andy

For anyone not aware, new disc brake pads should always be "bedded in", to improve the overall braking effect.  First, clean the rotors with isopropyl alcohol.  Then take the tandem for a ride and get up to a decent speed, firmly pull one brake on until you almost come to a halt, then accelerate away again and brake again.  Repeat this quickly 15 times in a row.  Doing this heats the pads up so that a thin layer of the brake material melts and gets deposited onto the rotor, so the brakes will work better overall.  Then repeat the process with the other disc brake.

I've really avoided the hydraulic / cable / hybrid question, didn't want to divert the thread away from my original question about a pad upgrade.  My main concern is boiling hydraulic fluid, I've read many threads now and note the advice above, so I'm sure that many are using hydraulics without this issue.  I asked specifically at purchase about hydraulic brakes and was told cable is safer and preferred for tandem use due to this very issue.  I'll leave it there, I remember the Camagnolo / Shimano debates of old :-))

The TRP hy/rd appear to be very well respected, although as far as I can see they are not endorsed for tandem use.  Reading around the Internet I managed to find one report of them locking up on a very long descent, must have been America as they described being stuck behind a 'mini van'.  This appears to have not allowed them to modulate the brakes sufficiently, an extreme condition but real world.

Really good to hear Andy Rice's report of using Hayes mechanicals in the Alps, I've taken a similar path of rotor upgrade, my new 203mm XT Icetech disks are sitting on the workbench at present. 

It looks like I have the pad question sorted, stumbled across another person recommending Discopads Copper Free yesterday, specifically for Spyres in use on a tandem, they do appear to be what I was looking for performance wise.

The big difficulty I have is, although I can work on the tandem adjusting and fettling to my hearts content, I can't ride on the front of it.  This means I can't even nip out to quickly test an upgrade or adjustment.  The advice of people who have been there and done it is so much more appreciated from this respect.

When I get out again I'll feed back on the new disks, in the meantime will be keeping the legs moving on Zwift (no tandems on there... yet)

I've really avoided the hydraulic / cable / hybrid question, didn't want to divert the thread away from my original question about a pad upgrade.  My main concern is boiling hydraulic fluid, I've read many threads now and note the advice above, so I'm sure that many are using hydraulics without this issue.  I asked specifically at purchase about hydraulic brakes and was told cable is safer and preferred for tandem use due to this very issue.  I'll leave it there, I remember the Camagnolo / Shimano debates of old :-))

The TRP hy/rd appear to be very well respected, although as far as I can see they are not endorsed for tandem use.  Reading around the Internet I managed to find one report of them locking up on a very long descent, must have been America as they described being stuck behind a 'mini van'.  This appears to have not allowed them to modulate the brakes sufficiently, an extreme condition but real world.

Really good to hear Andy Rice's report of using Hayes mechanicals in the Alps, I've taken a similar path of rotor upgrade, my new 203mm XT Icetech disks are sitting on the workbench at present. 

It looks like I have the pad question sorted, stumbled across another person recommending Discopads Copper Free yesterday, specifically for Spyres in use on a tandem, they do appear to be what I was looking for performance wise.

The big difficulty I have is, although I can work on the tandem adjusting and fettling to my hearts content, I can't ride on the front of it.  This means I can't even nip out to quickly test an upgrade or adjustment.  The advice of people who have been there and done it is so much more appreciated from this respect.

When I get out again I'll feed back on the new disks, in the meantime will be keeping the legs moving on Zwift (no tandems on there... yet)

One thing to bear in mind, is that cable operated disc brakes quickly came and went in mainstream specification, it was a stop gap, a short term fix for CX and MB racing, they required constant adjustment, especially the single sided ones.  I run Hope V4 and 203 Vented discs (meaning the discs are internally machined as a car/motor bike design) that are 3.2mm thick, these stop us on a penny. Although i did have fade on the organic pads it came with, but since fitting sintered, no such issue, and loaded for touring too. Cable brakes, are really only a necessity when you have frame couplings, even then I'd look at removing the caliper and unclipping the hose before resorting to cable. 

In response to Kevin's note regarding hydraulic brakes, you can get couplers for split frame tandems.  They are expensive but do work, what you will find is that you may need to bleed the brakes more often depending on how often you split the frame.  I found that every couple of years is the norm splitting monthly or thereabouts, but if you are splitting the frame every 5 minutes then expect to bleed more frequently!

Hi everyone, thanks for all your comments, I wanted to post an update for the help of others coming across this thread. 

My original enquiry was about upgrading the pads on my TRP Spires. 

The answer to this one is simple, there are better pads out there.  A set of Discopads 'copper free' made a significant difference, they improved initial bite and overall power.

The rotors on the bike, 203mm stamped steel rotors, did appear to be getting very hot. We didn't experience fade but they where getting noisy on very steep descents.

Upgrade number 2 came in the form of Shimano XT Ice-tech 203mm rotors.  These are simply superb.  The brakes are powerful, smooth, quite and confidence inspiring.  Pilot Chris commented 'the brake are now what I expected them to be'.

Alongside the pad and rotor upgrades, correct setup I'm sure has been absolutely crucial.  Yes these brakes take ongoing tweaking, but they are certainly up to the job.

I get all the comments about hydraulic disks and understand people championing them passionately.  I would say that there will always be use case scenarios, whether that be cost, application, preference etc.

I wanted to work with what I had for now, it's really good to know that the Spires are able to deliver solid performance.  Whether fluid boiling in hydraulics is an issue or not I really don't know (beyond what I was advised at purchase), for now though cables are doing an excellent job.

 

Sorry, can't work out how to put pictures the right way round